period recently, two billionaire-backed groups, one associated with the koch brothers, one with karl rove's network of mysterious givers, these two groups donated over 60% of grover norquist's budget. i mean, isn't that what's really going on with the system, that the lobbyists chiefly presenting a more -- preventing a more equitable tax system is beholden to the plutocrats? >> money plays way too big a part in our political system today. you know, there's way too much money coming into it -- that there's no control over it, that what you have -- well, let me tell you -- in my book, bill, i probably have the most extreme position on this than anybody, because what i have proposed in terms of political campaigns, that no money should come from any source other than from individual human beings. i would get rid of political action committee money, political party money, labor union money, corporate money. you know, i would go down to small amounts that are instantly reported, all transparent. i think we have to do that, because it is this money pouring in -- what comes out at the end is not r